Audie L. Murphy Memorial Website Message Boards

I know we've been talking about Audie's horses on another thread, but thought I'd start a new one because I have a couple of questions of EVA.

I was looking online and googling Audie's horses JOE QUEEN, FLYING JOHN, MACKAY BOY. I found offspring of JOE QUEEN and MACKAY BOY. I was wondering about FLYING JOHN, but Eva says he was a gelding so that answers that. Have you ever seen the pages where they list the quarter horse pedigree and bloodline? Sure wish we knew what happened to those horses. I know that they wouldn't be around anymore, but wish we knew.

Another tidbit, do you know anything about the horse that Joel McCrea rode alot in his movies? He appears to be the same horse. Looks like his eyes are different colors. Big white blaze on his face.

***Teri

Do you mean AllBreed? http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/joe+queen & http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/mackay+boy
That is a generic pedigree site maintained mostly by users. It was originally for thoroughbred horses but grew over the years. There are many horses listed there, including my three http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/fascinashan http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/imaginashan & http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/shanina+me
I have added oodles of horses and pictures to that site; mostly Arabians, because they are what I know best.

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Eva Danø

Don't have a clue. I DO know who Joel McCrea is, but the only movie of his I remember seeing is BLACK HORSE CANYON (I think that was the title), on account of researching this pic, which was taken on the set of that movie:

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Eva Danø

Joe Queen is pretty much the only Murphy Quarter Horse who was famous enough in his own right for his pedigree to show up in general publications. Both his sire, Joe Reed II, and dam, Club Foot Queenie, were very highly regarded animals in their own right, and Joe Queen had already established himself as a successful racehorse (and stud, I think) by the time Murphy bought him, although Murphy and his trainers deserve credit for the decision to turn him into a "show horse," where he also performed well. As of mid-to-late 1971, he belonged to Dr. John Owens of Durant Oklahoma, who bred him to a "Paint" mare of racing stock, for a 1972 foal. (This from a work I found through google books, called "The American Paint Horse"). It is just barely possible that Murphy had managed to hold onto Joe all the way up to his own death, or almost-a respected stud stallion could generate a certain amount of money in breeding fees, and Murphy was obviously very proud of the animal.

Flying John may have raced in 1949, although I had difficulty making sense of the google books excerpt on that one. Assuming he was a three year old in 1949, he would have been seven or so when Murphy started riding him in Drums Across the River and Ride Clear of Diablo. If his name is a permutation of some famous ancestor's name, as a pedigreed horse's name often is, he might be descended from Flying Bob, a well-regarded racehorse and stud from Louisiana.

Depth Charge, who Murphy owned in partnership with someone else, was a well-known Thoroughbred racehorse and stud, sire named Bold Venture, dam named Quickly. At the time Murphy and partner bought him, he had already established himself as a successful stud, siring good quality Thoroughbreds and Quarter Horses. (If you're wondering how that works, a Thoroughbred/Quarter Horse cross can be provisionally registered with the Quarter Horses, and raced in certain races. If it does well enough, it is re-registered as a full-fledged Quarter Horse and can be bred as such.)

Hi everyone,
I'm a fairly recent Audie Murphy fan-started watching his movies after reading the Western Horseman Legends books about the history of QHs and it seemed like he was mentioned in almost every chapter about successful race horses. So I found a couple of his movies (hoping that some of his horses appeared!) and now my sisters and I are keen fans.

In the history of the race horse Tonto Bars Hank (WH Legends 4) there's a photo of a gathering in the winner's circle showing Audie Murphy (far right). I was wondering if he ever owned or part-owned this horse?

Hello, and welcome aboard! Always glad to meet another fan of Murph and his horses, especially one who comes bearing pictures. I can't find anything to indicate whether he had a part-interest in Tonto Bar Hanks, but the fact is that there's a lot we don't know about the horsey side of his interests. His wife didn't share them, his sons were too young to be kept in the loop on who owned and trained what horse when, and a lot of the people who did work with him on that are now dead.

The most likely reasons for him being in the winner's enclosure would be either him being a part-owner of the winner, or him congratulating the winner. At least one jockey who rode for him said he didn't like to go down to the winner's enclosure, even when his horses won, so this is mildly uncharacteristic behavior for him either way.

I had no idea Audie Murphy figured that consistently in the Western Horseman books about the QH breed-I'll have to actually track them down and read them instead of skimming the excerpts on google books.

If you like quarter horses and haven't seen the Whispering Smith series yet, it features Joe Queen pretty prominently. There's even an episode about a horse race!

Welcome to our boards, FlyingJohnFan! We are absolutely delighted that you have joined us. On behalf of the others, we hope you will come here often and make comments, ask questions, and become part of our circle.

Eva, who knew Audie and his family personally, is also a professional horse breeder and an expert on the question you have asked. She is the one who will probably know the answer to the question you are asking. I certainly don't know the answer but think the question is very interesting. I LOVE that picture. I don't recall ever seeing that one before. I have a section of horse photos on the website (in the photos gallery) and would LOVE to get an original scan of it to include.

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Richard L. Rodgers
Webmaster
Audie Murphy Memorial Website

Sorry, I do not know if Audie ever owned this horse; I never heard the name before. The info below the pic lists the owner as "Milo T.C.G. Whitcomb" (or Whiteomb?). I used to know some Whitcombs, but they owned ARABIANS, not Quarter Horses.

I am mostly an Arabian horse person; I know very little about Quarter horses. I know that Audie's racing colors was black and gold; he told me so, but I never saw any of his horses race. I even wrote something about it in my blog. http://magicsmom46.blogspot.com/2010/06/audie-murphy-memory-timeline-1965.html

My guess would be that Audie was part sponsor of the race and/or was roped into presenting the trophy. It is also possible that he was accepting the trophy for an absentee owner, but I think the former. I'd guess the owners or owner and trainer are the ones holding the trophy.

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Eva Danø

I don't know anything about horses, but I want to extend my welcome to you as well FlyingJohnFan. We have some good discussions on the board and hope you will participate in them. We'd love to be able to address you by your name if you wouldn't mind. If you'd rather not, that's OK too. Thanks for sharing the photo.

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Betty

FlyingJohnFan, I also want to welcome you, and thank you for the picture. It is nice to see something different for a change.

Any chance you can supply us with some of the quotes about Audie from the LEGENDS books? I think most of us would find it quite fascinating to get even those tiny glimpses into Audie's "other" life.

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Eva Danø

Hi again and thanks for the welcome! My name is Jo and I'm from New Zealand.

Most of the accounts in the Legends books just mention that a horse was 'owned by film star Audie Murphy' from this date to that date, but the thing that stood out to me was that while the horses were under his ownership there were wise breeding decisions made that crossed outstanding bloodlines and race records. Although I'd read a little about him in my studies of World War 2, my first real awareness of Audie Murphy was as an insightful horseman with very good taste in mounts! It was only after seeing his name in books and old magazine articles about Quarter Horse history that we watched his movies and found that he was a talented actor, and then read about his military career and we thought, Wow, Audie Murphy was quite a guy.

After watching a few of his movies I was curious about whether he owned, trained or both any of the horses that he rode other than Flying John? We've noticed that he rarely used spurs but his horses responded to the slightest touch and he often can be seen saying his lines and maneuvering his horses as though riding was natural to him.

Dear Flyingjohnfan,
Welcome to the board. We would be very happy for you to participate in our discussions and to
be a member of our circle. Has anyone noticed all the small young boys behind the fence in this
photo besides me?, I do believe that Audie was the Piedpiper of young children all his adult life !
Just my Thoughts... Shirley Jean.

Wow, Jo. Nice to meet someone from New Zealand. Audie's fan base truly reaches worldwide. Look forward to seeing your postings on the board.

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Betty

He might have trained some other horses he owned in the early fifties, but he didn't ride them in the movies. In the late fifties he was so busy with his movies, overseeing his breeding and racing operations overall, assisting in police work, etc. that I don't think he had time for much one-on-one training. Usually, he rode animals from the Universal stables in his films. I think the only "movie horses" he owned were Flying John (seen in Drums Across the River, Ride Clear of Diablo, Guns of Fort Petticoat, Ride a Crooked Trail, and Night Passage) and Joe Queen (seen in maybe half the episodes of Whispering Smith). There is a dialogue reference in "The Texican" to his mount being a good quarter horse, which is probably an insider's reference to his real life love of QHs. But the animal he's actually riding in the film is pretty clearly an Andalusian or similar Spanish breed (that being where Texican was filmed).

A lot of people describe him as having a natural rapport with animals, particularly horses and dogs, so I think his skill as a rider came from that (well, that and good teachers and lots of practice). It's good to know that he and his trainer Dallas Clark made sound judgment calls with their breeding program-some Audie Murphy biographers, not being horse people, tend to portray him as just this guy aimlessly spending money on expensive animals because they don't really get what he was trying to do.

Hi Jo,

Nice to have you aboard

I, for one, would love to know which horses were owned by Audie. We only know about a few. Even better if you could give dates too. Do you own the books? Can you remember which volumes have references to Audie? Maybe, if you re-read a chapter you can post the horse's name and the reference? No need to do them all at once, just as you get around to it.

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Eva Danø