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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:02 pm 
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Does anyone know if some of the other places where Audie Murphy fought in WWII are officially designated like Holtzwihr? For example, is the hill where Lattie Tipton got killed known? Is the forested area in France where Audie got shot by the sniper known? Is the field where Audie destroyed the German tank off Anzio beach to earn his first Bronze Star known? I should think it would be interesting to visit some of those locations for someone who has read his book and is learned about Audie's military career. Many thanks!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:58 pm 
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I don't have the answer to your question for you J.A. but I agree, they would be worth revisiting. I would like to include some information on this website about those locations ... can anyone help?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:34 am 
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Hi Folks,
Just a couple of notes on the question put forth. I wished I had a scanner, because in the book "American Soldier" by Col. Harold Simpson, on pages 109, and again on page 141, are maps that basically show the routes taken by Company B, 1st Battalion, 15th Infantry Regiment both in Italy, (Page 109), and France, (Page 141). It literally shows on the maps of those two countries respectfully, all the towns, cities, rivers, mountain ranges, Company B took during the War. Both of these maps start at embarkation into the respective countries all the way through their march into Germany. It also gives names of each battle, dates, sometimes weather, and in footnotes it will give number of casualties lost and wounded and whether a command post was eventually set up or whether Company B was transferred to another location. In his narrative, Col. Simpson does an excellent job in retelling what Audie did in Battle, where he was located in a particular battle, and everything he could obtain about the circumstances regarding same. There is very little left unsaid about Audie's over 400 days in combat in this book. That is why the experts claim this book to be "The Bible" on Audie's war experience. It has several maps, pictures, letters to home, and also reminences of men who were in combat with Audie. Quite a complete picture of all of Audie's war experiences . Also, Col Simpson often times refers to Don Taggart's "History of the Third Infantry Division in World War II. Plus in the Bibliography he refers and lists all the "Official Operations Reports" of Consolidated Activities of 15th Infantry Regiment, including Company B's whereabouts on certain dates during the war. All of which were obtained as declassified material from the office of Regimental Commander of the Third Infantry Division Dept of the Army. As all of Audie's fans know, this book trace's Audie's life from the time he was born in Texas, his early years all the way to the day he died on May 28th 1971. It is 466 pages, quite extensive, with many pictures and like I said maps from Africa all the way to Berlin. His life after the war is also written about not only Hollywood but when he would go on tour for either a picture or whatever business venture he was involved in. If one had the time and money, I bet a trip through Europe taking pictures of all the places the battle sights were and towns Audie had to pass through could be done just from this book alone. The only trouble is that too much time has passed and a lot of the locations would be vastly different than the time he passed through there. Thank goodness Col. Simpson embarked on this book when he did or we would not have had this excellent biography on Audie.

Just my thoughts.... Shirley Jean.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:55 pm 
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Excellent response, Shirleyjean.
The only source I might add would be the pertinent volumes of Samuel Eliot Morison's History of Naval Operations in World War II, those that deal with the amphibious landings in Italy and France. On the old message board here, in its early days, before my book was finished, I posted a "find" from that source that cleared up a discrepancy between Simpson and To Hell and Back. I included it in the book:

Quote:
“About 3000 yards east of the Salso River, separated from it by a marshy tract and a pond, begins Beach Yellow;" wrote Morison. The city of Licata lay just to the left, with Monte Solo behind it. Directly ahead lay Saffarello Hill and Monte Gallardo. The landing went well, as Simpson reported: “The 1st Battalion came ashore at Beach Yellow just east of the town of Licata. Enemy opposition was light." Although Harold Simpson wrote that PFC. Murphy was a part of those first landings and “apparently got ashore without incident,” it is likely that he did not. “Just leave it to the Army to foul things up," Murph wrote in To Hell and Back, “If the schedule had not gone snafu, we would have come ashore with the assault forces. That was what I wanted. I had primed myself for the big moment. Then the timing got snarled in the predawn confusion, and we came in late, chugging ashore like a bunch of clucks in a ferryboat." Murph's own account is backed up by Morison who reported that the Salso landings went extremely well except for “nine LCT's destined for Beach Yellow [which] lost sight of their guide and ran blind.” They followed the wrong guide boat, and headed for the Gela River with DIME force. “But the mistake was remedied after daylight and those LCT's reached Beach Yellow at 0800,” completely in accord with Murph's recollections.


Ann

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:08 pm 
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Ann, Great Catch !!!
It is quite a testament to the research and work that Col. Simpson put into his book, American
Soldier, because after over 35 years, folks still refer to it, in order to clear something up or to
answer a question regarding Audie's war service. I think Audie would be proud of it..
Just my thoughts... Shirley Jean.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:17 pm 
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I think so, too. Besides, any biologist who goes to the trouble of finding the recipe for his subject's favorite dessert (Mrs. Cawthorn's pumpkin bread) and including it in his work has to really care about the individual, and want to get it right.

Ann

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:52 pm 
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Thank you very much Shirley Jean and Ann for your responses! Perhaps, I'll treat myself to a copy of Colonel Simpson's book, "American Sodier" for my birthday coming up in June.

Along those same lines, are there ever any organized group excursions to the various battle sights where Audie Murphy, the 15th Regiment or the 3rd division fought in Europe? A lady from Texas who's really into Audie told me about another lady who accompanied members of the 3rd division last year to Europe for just such an excursion and said that some of the men who were with Audie when he earned his Medal of Honor were on that trip as well. That would be fascinating to me! What better way to visit those sites than with some of the men who were actually there?! It would also be good to go with someone or a group of people who have the same admiration for Audie as I do.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:47 pm 
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I don't personally know of any, but I did think of another historical source you might try. There is a book, Heroes of World War II by Edward F. Murphy (no relation) that gives short histories of many of the WWII MOH winners, and intersperses the bios with the troop movements of the divisions, regiments, etc. that each of the spotlighted heroes were a part of. Mr. Murphy makes some mistakes in reporting Audie Murphy's personal life, but the military history is very accurate. You might find it helpful.

Ann

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"He endured the shame of being sent home a living trophy to the blood and death of too many friends"
A Myth in Action: The Heroic Life of Audie Murphy
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:32 am 
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Ann,
I feel the same way !!! I tried making Pumpkin Bread from the one in Simpson's book, turned out
great !!! I happen to be partial to Pumpkin Pie, so I knew I would like the bread, but my all time
favorite is Zucchini Bread... A,J. My suggestion would be to contact Fort Lewis in Washington
State. That is the headquarters of the 3rd Division, they may be able to get you in touch with
the right veteran's organization that sponsors such excursions... Just my thoughts... Shirley Jean.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:10 am 
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Thanks again, Shirley Jean & Ann! You gals are great!


-J.A. Armour


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:39 pm 
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Shirleyjean wrote:
Ann,
I feel the same way !!! I tried making Pumpkin Bread from the one in Simpson's book, turned out
great !!! I happen to be partial to Pumpkin Pie, so I knew I would like the bread, but my all time
favorite is Zucchini Bread... A,J. My suggestion would be to contact Fort Lewis in Washington
State. That is the headquarters of the 3rd Division, they may be able to get you in touch with
the right veteran's organization that sponsors such excursions... Just my thoughts... Shirley Jean.


You may be right Shirleyjean and I'm not a military expert, but I always thought the headquarters for the 3d Division was at Ft. Benning, GA. I know the 4th Division is at Ft. Hood, TX. Or, do they all have more than one location???

Someone out there that's very well versed in military (like Dave Phillips or Richard Rodgers for instance) please correct me if I'm wrong. Just curious :) :)

***Teri


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:28 pm 
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Hi Teri,
Great to hear from you. Hope all is well for you and your family. I keep hearing about those
terrible Texas wildfires in western Texas, and now today on the news another tornado near Edom.
Boy Howdy, sure hope it settles down sometime soon. When I suggested Fort Lewis Washington,
I had Col. Simpson's book, American Soldier and was referring to it regarding the maps that are
located there regarding Audie's trek through Italy, France, and eventually Germany during WWII.
Anyway, on page 271 at the top of the page Col. Simpson wrote: " Most of the film (THAB) was
filmed at Ft. Lewis, near Yakima, Washington. Ironically, this was the Army post from which the
3rd Infantry Division, the division that Audie joined in North Africa, had left to go overseas in WWII."
Ft. Benning, Georgia is definitely their headquarters now days. I believe I recall reading somewhere
in the 60's (Mid?) Ft. Benning was increased in size and in reality housed two military installations
an Army base, and I believe conjoined with it was an Air Force Base, all of this was done for the
ramp up during the Vietnam war. During that time the Ft. Benning became the official base of the
3rd Infantry. I am pretty sure I read that on the web as a historical article that I believe can be
found at Ft. Benning's official web site. Hope that clears up the mystery. The reason I suggested
Ft. Lewis rather than Ft. Benning is because my thinking is when the guys actually came home,
I would think the division would be returned from where they started from, so a better chance of
contacting any of the older crowd that may still be alive or auxillarys that may have names or who
to get in touch with for the itinerary's regarding the trip that Mr. Armour was inquiring about.
Failing that, then the next step would be to contact Ft. Benning or a Veteran VFW post that may
have sponsored the trip. Take care Teri.. Shirley Jean.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Teri Edge wrote:
You may be right Shirleyjean and I'm not a military expert, but I always thought the headquarters for the 3d Division was at Ft. Benning, GA. I know the 4th Division is at Ft. Hood, TX. Or, do they all have more than one location???
The 3rd Infantry Division HQ's is in Fort Stewart, Georgia. The 4th Infantry Division HQ's is now in Fort Hood, Texas. It took the place of the inactivated 2d Armored Division (General Patton's Division) which I used to serve with. The 4th ID was moved to Fort Hood around 1994 or 95. The 1st Calvary Division is also at Fort Hood.

It's not always possible to say a division is located at "this fort." Many divisions have "forward deployed" brigades or elements overseas. You could find a Division (-) "minus" a brigade. The missing brigade could be forward deployed to a hot spot, such as the Korea. The 1st Calvary used to (and still could) have a brigade deployed forward to Korea close to the border. So did the 2d Armored Division. They had a division near the Fulda Gap in Germany.

More likely today, the forward deployed brigades are probably in the middle east some where. These brigades spend a little time overseas (probably about a year) and then rotate back to the states trading places with another brrigade ... possibly from the same Division, but not always.

I haven't been active since 1993 so I am not quite sure. Camp Zama is a logistical center with no combat arms units here so I am not as on top of things as I used to be.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:32 am 
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Richard,
You are probably right, and a big thank you for keeping us on our toes.. Ft. Stewart and not Ft.
Benning, Ga. is the home of the 3rd Infantry Division. Do we get any brownie points for at least
getting the state of Georgia right ???? LOL. Shirley Jean.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:23 pm 
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Hey Richard and Shirleyjean:

Now, although I love Audie and the military.......I couldn't really answer truthfully if asked the difference in a division and a brigade. I would make a guess that a division is bigger than a brigade, but then again, I might be wrong.

Thanks to both of you for clearing this question up for me. To Mr. Armour who was trying to find out an answer to his question, I'm sure he'll get more answers soon from this board.

Richard, I hope everything is okay with you and your family. Haven't heard anything about Japan in the news lately.

God Bless,

***Teri


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