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 Post subject: The SOLDIER'S MEDAL
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:24 pm 
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I'm sure I'm missing something while reading about this, as I often do, but can ANYONE explain to me why Audie didn't win this medal? According to the wikipedia, "The Soldier's Medal is awarded to any person of the Armed Forces of the United States or of a friendly foreign nation who, while serving in any capacity with the Army of the United States, distinguished himself or herself by heroism not involving actual conflict with an enemy." (Army Regulation 600-8-22).

Wouldn't Audie have qualified for this when he ordered his troops back out of enemy fire while he mounted the burning tank, the action that distinguished him with winning the Medal of Honor? I've read other accounts of who and why they were awarded the soldier's medal and while most are not directly with the enemy, it's during some type combat.

I've never heard of this award. Stumbled on it while reading more on Col. Tony Herbert.

Anyone have information of this? Pro or Con?

***Teri


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 Post subject: Re: The SOLDIER'S MEDAL
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:45 pm 
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Location: Sherwood, AR
Teri Edge wrote:
I'm sure I'm missing something while reading about this, as I often do, but can ANYONE explain to me why Audie didn't win this medal? According to the wikipedia, "The Soldier's Medal is awarded to any person of the Armed Forces of the United States or of a friendly foreign nation who, while serving in any capacity with the Army of the United States, distinguished himself or herself by heroism not involving actual conflict with an enemy." (Army Regulation 600-8-22).

Wouldn't Audie have qualified for this when he ordered his troops back out of enemy fire while he mounted the burning tank, the action that distinguished him with winning the Medal of Honor? I've read other accounts of who and why they were awarded the soldier's medal and while most are not directly with the enemy, it's during some type combat.

I've never heard of this award. Stumbled on it while reading more on Col. Tony Herbert.

Anyone have information of this? Pro or Con?

***Teri



Never heard of it either, but I've never been in the military. Sounds like a question for Dave or Richard, or some other person who has been in the army to answer.

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"You lead from the front." Audie Murphy, WWII's Most Decorated Soldier


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 Post subject: Re: The SOLDIER'S MEDAL
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:19 am 
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Bob wrote:
Teri Edge wrote:
I'm sure I'm missing something while reading about this, as I often do, but can ANYONE explain to me why Audie didn't win this medal? According to the wikipedia, "The Soldier's Medal is awarded to any person of the Armed Forces of the United States or of a friendly foreign nation who, while serving in any capacity with the Army of the United States, distinguished himself or herself by heroism not involving actual conflict with an enemy." (Army Regulation 600-8-22).Wouldn't Audie have qualified for this when he ordered his troops back out of enemy fire while he mounted the burning tank, the action that distinguished him with winning the Medal of Honor? I've read other accounts of who and why they were awarded the soldier's medal and while most are not directly with the enemy, it's during some type combat.

I've never heard of this award. Stumbled on it while reading more on Col. Tony Herbert.

Anyone have information of this? Pro or Con?

***Teri



Never heard of it either, but I've never been in the military. Sounds like a question for Dave or Richard, or some other person who has been in the army to answer.



Teri and Bob;


I think I can properly field this question.
First the Soldiers Medal is awarded for heroism and can be awarded in peacetime or wartime. In wartime it normally involves direct enemy contact and is awarded for example to a medic for saving someone's life or perhaps to a ground mechanic when a helo comes in under fire and crashes and the guy goes out and drags wounded from the aircraft. In peacetime, it might involve an off duty soldier saving someone from a burning home or a vehicle that is on fire.
Undoubtably, Audie probably one more than one occasion would have met the criteria for an award of the Soldier's Medal but like all awards someone has to witness the act and then someone (or in some cases multiple witnesses) must write the eyewitness account of the award narrative must be prepared and then the award must be submitted and hopefully approved.
That said, as to Audie and Holtzwihr, merely ordering his men to the rear while he engaged the enemy would not by itself merit an award of the Soldiers Medal. That was simply an act of using good common sense.
In addition, the act of ordering his men to the rear and staying alone would have been considered as part of the Medal of Honor event and therefore would not have been a separate act of heroism to qualify one for the Soldiers Medal.
Hope this helps shed some light on the way these things unfold.

Thanks,

Dave

_________________
"I believe in all the men who stood up against the enemy, taking their beatings without whimper and their triumphs without boasting. The men who went and would go again to hell and back to preserve what our country thinks right and decent."


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 Post subject: Re: The SOLDIER'S MEDAL
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:17 pm
Posts: 276
Location: Sherwood, AR
Audie'sDad wrote:
Bob wrote:
Teri Edge wrote:
I'm sure I'm missing something while reading about this, as I often do, but can ANYONE explain to me why Audie didn't win this medal? According to the wikipedia, "The Soldier's Medal is awarded to any person of the Armed Forces of the United States or of a friendly foreign nation who, while serving in any capacity with the Army of the United States, distinguished himself or herself by heroism not involving actual conflict with an enemy." (Army Regulation 600-8-22).Wouldn't Audie have qualified for this when he ordered his troops back out of enemy fire while he mounted the burning tank, the action that distinguished him with winning the Medal of Honor? I've read other accounts of who and why they were awarded the soldier's medal and while most are not directly with the enemy, it's during some type combat.

I've never heard of this award. Stumbled on it while reading more on Col. Tony Herbert.

Anyone have information of this? Pro or Con?

***Teri



Never heard of it either, but I've never been in the military. Sounds like a question for Dave or Richard, or some other person who has been in the army to answer.



Teri and Bob;


I think I can properly field this question.
First the Soldiers Medal is awarded for heroism and can be awarded in peacetime or wartime. In wartime it normally involves direct enemy contact and is awarded for example to a medic for saving someone's life or perhaps to a ground mechanic when a helo comes in under fire and crashes and the guy goes out and drags wounded from the aircraft. In peacetime, it might involve an off duty soldier saving someone from a burning home or a vehicle that is on fire.
Undoubtably, Audie probably one more than one occasion would have met the criteria for an award of the Soldier's Medal but like all awards someone has to witness the act and then someone (or in some cases multiple witnesses) must write the eyewitness account of the award narrative must be prepared and then the award must be submitted and hopefully approved.
That said, as to Audie and Holtzwihr, merely ordering his men to the rear while he engaged the enemy would not by itself merit an award of the Soldiers Medal. That was simply an act of using good common sense.
In addition, the act of ordering his men to the rear and staying alone would have been considered as part of the Medal of Honor event and therefore would not have been a separate act of heroism to qualify one for the Soldiers Medal.
Hope this helps shed some light on the way these things unfold.

Thanks,

Dave



Makes sense to me Dave. Thanks. Good to have an authority to go to on board.

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"You lead from the front." Audie Murphy, WWII's Most Decorated Soldier


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 Post subject: Re: The SOLDIER'S MEDAL
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:36 pm 
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I agree with Dave's summary of this medal. Today, the medal, on the rare occasions it is given during peacetime events, goes to military service members who do something considered heroic such as pulling a crash victim out of a burning car or save's someone certain death, perhaps during a natural disaster (flood, etc.) a great risk to their own life. Dave has very nicely provided excellent examples of how it is awarded during combat events.

If anyone can think of a well-documented event in which Audie was not decorated, which meets the criteria for the following ...
Quote:
3–13. Soldier’s Medal
a. The Soldier’s Medal, 10 USC 3750 was established by Act of Congress 2 July 1926 amended 10 USC 3750.
b. The Soldier’s Medal is awarded to any person of the Armed Forces of the United States or of a friendly foreign nation who, while serving in any capacity with the Army of the United States, including reserve component Soldiers not serving in a duty status, as defined in 10 USC 101(d), at the time of the heroic act, who distinguished himself or herself by heroism not involving actual conflict with an enemy. The same degree of heroism is required as that of the award of the Distinguished Flying Cross. The performance must have involved personal hazard or danger and the voluntary risk of life under conditions not involving conflict with an armed enemy. Awards will not be made solely on the basis of having saved a life.

... then maybe we can put together a recommendation and submit it posthumously for Audie after the PMoF is finished and approved. :D

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 Post subject: Re: The SOLDIER'S MEDAL
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:25 am
Posts: 428
Location: Texas
Dave: Thanks for your explanation. I'm surprised of all the people that have actually been awarded this medal. Colin Powell being one. Thanks again.

Richard: I like your thinking about maybe petitioning that it be awarded to Audie posthumously.


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 Post subject: Re: The SOLDIER'S MEDAL
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:23 am
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Teri Edge wrote:
Dave: Thanks for your explanation. I'm surprised of all the people that have actually been awarded this medal. Colin Powell being one. Thanks again.

Richard: I like your thinking about maybe petitioning that it be awarded to Audie posthumously.


The "not involving conflict with an armed enemy" is the tricky part. If he was at the front, Murph was usually seizing any opportunity to engage with the enemy. if he was away from the front, he was either trying to get back to the front or getting into trouble because he couldn't. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The SOLDIER'S MEDAL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Teri Edge wrote:
Dave: Thanks for your explanation. I'm surprised of all the people that have actually been awarded this medal. Colin Powell being one. Thanks again.

Richard: I like your thinking about maybe petitioning that it be awarded to Audie posthumously.




I don't think it would ever happen (a posthumous award) as there are basically no eye-witnesses to an incident to write a witness statement, or at least none that I know of. too many years have past at this point, unless there was an award recommendation that was written at the time and was lost over the years and then can be located and submitted again.

Thanks,

Dave

_________________
"I believe in all the men who stood up against the enemy, taking their beatings without whimper and their triumphs without boasting. The men who went and would go again to hell and back to preserve what our country thinks right and decent."


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 Post subject: Re: The SOLDIER'S MEDAL
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:41 pm 
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Hello All,
There are a couple of things that I remember reading about that were posted in the local newspapers at the time in his life, where he was just out of the Army, (probably on Reserve Status?) that may qualify. I don't know if having it publicized in the local newspaper would qualify as (an eyewitness report) however, here
goes: When Audie had to defend himself from a young thug who had just ripped off a gas station and had hitched a ride with Audie then pulled a weapon on him, Audie succeeded in punching the guys lights out and then turned the kid into the local police. Next suggestion, All the ride al-long's that Audie went on
with drug enforcement officers in Los Angeles County, and Texas, and /or Arizona. Might have been about the time he was enlisted in the Texas National Guard? This (Humanitarian) service came out after Audie's demise, I think in Col. Simpson's book on Audie "American Soldier". And finally, his service visits to
american soldiers in Vet Hospitals, well publicized, on his own time and own dime. Not to mention his
Public Service Announcements for the military during his lifetime and the other PSN's for Savings Bonds and
the Childhood Polio PSN. These humanitarian incidents may not qualify, but in my humble opinion, the
fact that the U.S. Army at least acknowledged Audie's remarkable life achievements by establishing the
SAMC clubs ARMY wide, gives credence to the fact that he should at least be nominated for the Soldier's
Medal. The fact that one or all of his actions during WWII probably succeeded in Saving one or more lives
during his enlistment in the U.S..Army, and his participation in Europe during that war. Just by reviewing their own Army record documentations would serve as (Eyewitness) accounts or at least should fulfill the
requirements you have mentioned. I am not the military experts you guys are, and thank god we have you on our board to go to, but a person would think that there are and were special people like Audie who would qualify for this medal. Just my thoughts. Shirley Jean.


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 Post subject: Re: The SOLDIER'S MEDAL
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:43 pm 
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Shirleyjean wrote:
Hello All,
There are a couple of things that I remember reading about that were posted in the local newspapers at the time in his life, where he was just out of the Army, (probably on Reserve Status?) that may qualify. I don't know if having it publicized in the local newspaper would qualify as (an eyewitness report) however, here
goes: When Audie had to defend himself from a young thug who had just ripped off a gas station and had hitched a ride with Audie then pulled a weapon on him, Audie succeeded in punching the guys lights out and then turned the kid into the local police. Next suggestion, All the ride al-long's that Audie went on
with drug enforcement officers in Los Angeles County, and Texas, and /or Arizona. Might have been about the time he was enlisted in the Texas National Guard? This (Humanitarian) service came out after Audie's demise, I think in Col. Simpson's book on Audie "American Soldier". And finally, his service visits to
american soldiers in Vet Hospitals, well publicized, on his own time and own dime. Not to mention his
Public Service Announcements for the military during his lifetime and the other PSN's for Savings Bonds and
the Childhood Polio PSN. These humanitarian incidents may not qualify, but in my humble opinion, the
fact that the U.S. Army at least acknowledged Audie's remarkable life achievements by establishing the
SAMC clubs ARMY wide, gives credence to the fact that he should at least be nominated for the Soldier's
Medal. The fact that one or all of his actions during WWII probably succeeded in Saving one or more lives
during his enlistment in the U.S..Army, and his participation in Europe during that war. Just by reviewing their own Army record documentations would serve as (Eyewitness) accounts or at least should fulfill the
requirements you have mentioned. I am not the military experts you guys are, and thank god we have you on our board to go to, but a person would think that there are and were special people like Audie who would qualify for this medal. Just my thoughts. Shirley Jean.




Shirley Jean:

Not to beat a dead horse to death but again for clarification. The Soldiers Medal is awarded for "heroism" usually involving risk of life and the best examples are for example; drowings, fire rescues, vehicle accidents etc.
In combat it could for example be awared for saving someone from a burning vehicle or a downed chopper.
The act must be a single act on a single day/event and the person could not have receieved another award for the act. For example, a person receiving the Silver Star for an act could not receive the Soldiers Medal for the same act.
Audie's day at Holtzwihr was mostly an act of self-preserverance. It was be overrun and slain or act to prevent the destruction of his unit and thereby hopefully save his life and the lives of his soldiers. For that he was recognized with the Medal of Honor.
The event with the hitchhiker was again an act of self-preserverance but would not rise to the level of an award of a Soldier's Medal even if he were on active or reserve duty which at the time he was not.
He could not be awarded an honor such as this for any of his many acts of humantarian service or for his work with the Army in his PSA's as the PSA's were a part of his award for the Outstanding Civilian Service Medal. Although not specifically mentioned in the citation I am sure that those acts were considered in the process.
Not sure, what else could be done at this point in time.

Thanks,

Dave

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"I believe in all the men who stood up against the enemy, taking their beatings without whimper and their triumphs without boasting. The men who went and would go again to hell and back to preserve what our country thinks right and decent."


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 Post subject: Re: The SOLDIER'S MEDAL
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:09 am 
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Dave,

I think you have explained it all very well here and I completely understand the point you have tried to make on how these medals are awarded and the criteria that has to be met to receive one. Thanks for the clarifications.

Sharon


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 Post subject: Re: The SOLDIER'S MEDAL
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:31 am 
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Dave, I now understand what you were trying to convey. Like I have said before, it is wonderful that we
have a Military expert to go to in order to get clarification. Thanks for the enlightenment.
Shirley Jean.


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 Post subject: Re: The SOLDIER'S MEDAL
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:05 am 
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Forgot to say, thank you for explaining this, Dave!


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 Post subject: Re: The SOLDIER'S MEDAL
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:43 pm 
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Shirleyjean wrote:
Dave, I now understand what you were trying to convey. Like I have said before, it is wonderful that we
have a Military expert to go to in order to get clarification. Thanks for the enlightenment.
Shirley Jean.




Shirley Jean:


No problem, just glad to be able to assist.


Thanks,


Dave

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"I believe in all the men who stood up against the enemy, taking their beatings without whimper and their triumphs without boasting. The men who went and would go again to hell and back to preserve what our country thinks right and decent."


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