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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:08 am 
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I've seen the tanks Murphy fought in this action described both as "heavy tanks" and as jagdpanzers/panzerjagers, which I understand to be a type of light tank destroyer, not so different from the M10 Wolverine. So, I'm kind of confused.

I also saw somewhere, and like an idiot forgot to make note of, a reference that actually named the German companies/units involved. Does that ring any bells for people?

Edit: Sgt Brawley's eye witness account of the Holtzwihr action describes the tank as Mark VIs-would that be the dreaded, but high-maintenance Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger I?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:02 am 
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Christie,
I think I remember seeing the article you are referring to. I may be wrong but I remember seeing it on
Dave Phillips Audie's web site. It is on Facebook, under Dave Phillips Wall. There he has articles about
the actual German soldiers who are still alive and were part of the German tank division on that fateful
day in January in Holtzwihr, France. I hope this helps you Christie. Good Luck. Shirley Jean.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:10 am 
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Dave, your son Audie is adorable. Such a spunky little guy. Reminds me of one of my grandsons. Willing to try anything. So, I read in one of the posts that you have an Audie website as well as a Facebook site? I just joined Facebook so am still a novice. Went on but couldn't find you. Would love to view it if you don't object.

Shirley Jean, happy birthday. My 71st was on June 2, the day Audie was awarded his CMOH. Hope the day was perfect for you.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:29 pm 
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Gerry wrote:
Dave, your son Audie is adorable. Such a spunky little guy. Reminds me of one of my grandsons. Willing to try anything. So, I read in one of the posts that you have an Audie website as well as a Facebook site? I just joined Facebook so am still a novice. Went on but couldn't find you. Would love to view it if you don't object.

Shirley Jean, happy birthday. My 71st was on June 2, the day Audie was awarded his CMOH. Hope the day was perfect for you.



Gerry:

Thanks for the compliment on my little Audie. To find my Facebook page which I am rarely on anymore due to my frequent deployments, sign onto facebook and in the search tab at the top, type in "Audie Murphy American Legend" and you will find the page.
Thanks so much again,

Dave

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"I believe in all the men who stood up against the enemy, taking their beatings without whimper and their triumphs without boasting. The men who went and would go again to hell and back to preserve what our country thinks right and decent."


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Christie wrote:
I've seen the tanks Murphy fought in this action described both as "heavy tanks" and as jagdpanzers/panzerjagers, which I understand to be a type of light tank destroyer, not so different from the M10 Wolverine. So, I'm kind of confused.

I also saw somewhere, and like an idiot forgot to make note of, a reference that actually named the German companies/units involved. Does that ring any bells for people?

Edit: Sgt Brawley's eye witness account of the Holtzwihr action describes the tank as Mark VIs-would that be the dreaded, but high-maintenance Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger I?



Christie and All:

After exhausting and painstaking research over the past couple of years I have identified not only the type of armor Audie encountered at Holtzwihr, but have been able to almost to a certainty identify the numbers of KIA (great difference from his MoH citation), the names and burial locations of some of them, the hull (vehicle) numbers of the armor involved, dates of manufacture, when they were attached to their units, tank losses, the names of the vehicle commanders, the unit (infantry) commanders, and much, much more to include photos of some of the actual German tanks involved and the tank commanders, all verifiable.
I will say that most of the historical information regarding the identification of the German units was inaccurate, so stand by for some surprises. The lead German tank commander survived the war. He was very heavily decorated during the war and had served as early on as 1939 with most of his time having been on the Eastern Front. He passed away about 15 years ago. Not sure if he ever realized after the war, that he was up against Audie Murphy at Holtzwihr that day, although I am trying to locate a spouse or a child to find out.
Also, last German soldier ( a tank Commander) from the Holtzwihr action (that I know of) passed away in 2010. Interestingly he married a French woman and lived only a few miles from Holtzwihr. He was a frequent guest at the Holtzwihr rememberance celebrations there.
Of course, Don Eckman, the last American soldier from Audie's Platoon that day at Holtzwihr is still alive and doing relatively well for the age of 88. nI speak to Don frequently.
I actually have several pics of the German tank commander standing with his tank that afternoon following Audie's MoH action. You can readily see the damage that Audie inflicted that day with his Artillery direction. In addition; the Driver of that vehicle, a Private, was killed when Audie got off a rather lucky shot (even for Audie) and put a .50 round through the drivers viewing slit and direct into the opitcal sight. The Driver took the round through his head and the loss of the optical sight rendered that tank useless.
On a side-note another interesting fact is that while Audie earned the Medal of Honor that day, the tank commander of whom I was speaking held Germany's equivalent of the MoH. It was called the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross (a neck decoration) and he earned it just prior to the engagement at Holtzwihr, so here we had two unit commanders facing off against each other and both were holders of their countries highest awards for valor.
Sort of a neat side-note. I have a beautiful color photo of that unit commander in my collection.
So, perhaps we should stand-by for a book on the facts of the engagement at Holtzwihr. What say you?

Thanks,

Dave

_________________
"I believe in all the men who stood up against the enemy, taking their beatings without whimper and their triumphs without boasting. The men who went and would go again to hell and back to preserve what our country thinks right and decent."


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:03 pm 
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Wow, that's fascinating information! Thank you. Are you suggesting that there is a new book on the way about the Holtzwhir engagement, or that there ought to be one? ;)

Audie'sDad wrote:
Christie wrote:
I've seen the tanks Murphy fought in this action described both as "heavy tanks" and as jagdpanzers/panzerjagers, which I understand to be a type of light tank destroyer, not so different from the M10 Wolverine. So, I'm kind of confused.

I also saw somewhere, and like an idiot forgot to make note of, a reference that actually named the German companies/units involved. Does that ring any bells for people?

Edit: Sgt Brawley's eye witness account of the Holtzwihr action describes the tank as Mark VIs-would that be the dreaded, but high-maintenance Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger I?



Christie and All:

After exhausting and painstaking research over the past couple of years I have identified not only the type of armor Audie encountered at Holtzwihr, but have been able to almost to a certainty identify the numbers of KIA (great difference from his MoH citation), the names and burial locations of some of them, the hull (vehicle) numbers of the armor involved, dates of manufacture, when they were attached to their units, tank losses, the names of the vehicle commanders, the unit (infantry) commanders, and much, much more to include photos of some of the actual German tanks involved and the tank commanders, all verifiable.
I will say that most of the historical information regarding the identification of the German units was inaccurate, so stand by for some surprises. The lead German tank commander survived the war. He was very heavily decorated during the war and had served as early on as 1939 with most of his time having been on the Eastern Front. He passed away about 15 years ago. Not sure if he ever realized after the war, that he was up against Audie Murphy at Holtzwihr that day, although I am trying to locate a spouse or a child to find out.
Also, last German soldier ( a tank Commander) from the Holtzwihr action (that I know of) passed away in 2010. Interestingly he married a French woman and lived only a few miles from Holtzwihr. He was a frequent guest at the Holtzwihr rememberance celebrations there.
Of course, Don Eckman, the last American soldier from Audie's Platoon that day at Holtzwihr is still alive and doing relatively well for the age of 88. nI speak to Don frequently.
I actually have several pics of the German tank commander standing with his tank that afternoon following Audie's MoH action. You can readily see the damage that Audie inflicted that day with his Artillery direction. In addition; the Driver of that vehicle, a Private, was killed when Audie got off a rather lucky shot (even for Audie) and put a .50 round through the drivers viewing slit and direct into the opitcal sight. The Driver took the round through his head and the loss of the optical sight rendered that tank useless.
On a side-note another interesting fact is that while Audie earned the Medal of Honor that day, the tank commander of whom I was speaking held Germany's equivalent of the MoH. It was called the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross (a neck decoration) and he earned it just prior to the engagement at Holtzwihr, so here we had two unit commanders facing off against each other and both were holders of their countries highest awards for valor.
Sort of a neat side-note. I have a beautiful color photo of that unit commander in my collection.
So, perhaps we should stand-by for a book on the facts of the engagement at Holtzwihr. What say you?

Thanks,

Dave


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:27 pm 
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Christie wrote:
Wow, that's fascinating information! Thank you. Are you suggesting that there is a new book on the way about the Holtzwhir engagement, or that there ought to be one? ;)

Audie'sDad wrote:
Christie wrote:
I've seen the tanks Murphy fought in this action described both as "heavy tanks" and as jagdpanzers/panzerjagers, which I understand to be a type of light tank destroyer, not so different from the M10 Wolverine. So, I'm kind of confused.

I also saw somewhere, and like an idiot forgot to make note of, a reference that actually named the German companies/units involved. Does that ring any bells for people?

Edit: Sgt Brawley's eye witness account of the Holtzwihr action describes the tank as Mark VIs-would that be the dreaded, but high-maintenance Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger I?



Christie and All:

After exhausting and painstaking research over the past couple of years I have identified not only the type of armor Audie encountered at Holtzwihr, but have been able to almost to a certainty identify the numbers of KIA (great difference from his MoH citation), the names and burial locations of some of them, the hull (vehicle) numbers of the armor involved, dates of manufacture, when they were attached to their units, tank losses, the names of the vehicle commanders, the unit (infantry) commanders, and much, much more to include photos of some of the actual German tanks involved and the tank commanders, all verifiable.
I will say that most of the historical information regarding the identification of the German units was inaccurate, so stand by for some surprises. The lead German tank commander survived the war. He was very heavily decorated during the war and had served as early on as 1939 with most of his time having been on the Eastern Front. He passed away about 15 years ago. Not sure if he ever realized after the war, that he was up against Audie Murphy at Holtzwihr that day, although I am trying to locate a spouse or a child to find out.
Also, last German soldier ( a tank Commander) from the Holtzwihr action (that I know of) passed away in 2010. Interestingly he married a French woman and lived only a few miles from Holtzwihr. He was a frequent guest at the Holtzwihr rememberance celebrations there.
Of course, Don Eckman, the last American soldier from Audie's Platoon that day at Holtzwihr is still alive and doing relatively well for the age of 88. nI speak to Don frequently.
I actually have several pics of the German tank commander standing with his tank that afternoon following Audie's MoH action. You can readily see the damage that Audie inflicted that day with his Artillery direction. In addition; the Driver of that vehicle, a Private, was killed when Audie got off a rather lucky shot (even for Audie) and put a .50 round through the drivers viewing slit and direct into the opitcal sight. The Driver took the round through his head and the loss of the optical sight rendered that tank useless.
On a side-note another interesting fact is that while Audie earned the Medal of Honor that day, the tank commander of whom I was speaking held Germany's equivalent of the MoH. It was called the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross (a neck decoration) and he earned it just prior to the engagement at Holtzwihr, so here we had two unit commanders facing off against each other and both were holders of their countries highest awards for valor.
Sort of a neat side-note. I have a beautiful color photo of that unit commander in my collection.
So, perhaps we should stand-by for a book on the facts of the engagement at Holtzwihr. What say you?

Thanks,

Dave




Christie:

Well, I certainly have uncovered enough to set the historical record straight and perhaps enough to condense into a book. Lots of personal recollections, after-action reports (U.S. and German), photos, bios of the main participants etc.
Guess that is why I was asking the "what say you" question.
Haven't started working on a book, but it may be time.
What 'ya think?

Thanks,

Dave

_________________
"I believe in all the men who stood up against the enemy, taking their beatings without whimper and their triumphs without boasting. The men who went and would go again to hell and back to preserve what our country thinks right and decent."


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:56 am 
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Audie'sDad wrote:


Christie:

Well, I certainly have uncovered enough to set the historical record straight and perhaps enough to condense into a book. Lots of personal recollections, after-action reports (U.S. and German), photos, bios of the main participants etc.
Guess that is why I was asking the "what say you" question.
Haven't started working on a book, but it may be time.
What 'ya think?

Thanks,

Dave


If you write it, we will definitely buy and read, Dave! Sorry brain was not turning over very quickly last night.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:43 am 
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I'll help edit! I guarantee a spot on the website for you. I also guarantee you that the book will get snapped up by the public faster than hot cakes on father's day at I-Hop!

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Audie Murphy Memorial Website


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:35 pm 
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You definitely need to write a book on the Holtzwhir engagement Dave. Like Richard says, it will be snapped up for sure. Who better than you to write this book? You have personally talked to so many people it would be riveting. Go for it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:22 am 
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Richard Rodgers wrote:
I'll help edit! I guarantee a spot on the website for you. I also guarantee you that the book will get snapped up by the public faster than hot cakes on father's day at I-Hop!



Thanks Richard!
I appreciate it! Guess maybe I should get busy mapping this thing out!

Thanks again,

Dave

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"I believe in all the men who stood up against the enemy, taking their beatings without whimper and their triumphs without boasting. The men who went and would go again to hell and back to preserve what our country thinks right and decent."


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:23 am 
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Betty wrote:
You definitely need to write a book on the Holtzwhir engagement Dave. Like Richard says, it will be snapped up for sure. Who better than you to write this book? You have personally talked to so many people it would be riveting. Go for it.



Thank you so much Betty!

It is so nice of you to think that it would make a good read!

Thanks again,

Dave

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"I believe in all the men who stood up against the enemy, taking their beatings without whimper and their triumphs without boasting. The men who went and would go again to hell and back to preserve what our country thinks right and decent."


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:07 am 
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Christie wrote:
I've seen the tanks Murphy fought in this action described both as "heavy tanks" and as jagdpanzers/panzerjagers, which I understand to be a type of light tank destroyer, not so different from the M10 Wolverine. So, I'm kind of confused.

I also saw somewhere, and like an idiot forgot to make note of, a reference that actually named the German companies/units involved. Does that ring any bells for people?

Edit: Sgt Brawley's eye witness account of the Holtzwihr action describes the tank as Mark VIs-would that be the dreaded, but high-maintenance Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger I?




Christie:

I'll give you this much. They were definantly jagdpanthers. I have several pics of the actual JP's that were in the engagement against Audie, complete with damage showing from the skirmish and dated on the verso at the time by these enemy with notations showing they were taken the day of and day following Holtzwihr.
As I said previously, I also have names of some of the enemy engaged at Holtzwihr, units, hull numbers, dates thatr these vehicles were assigned to the unit, disposition, unit commanders, some KIA etc.
I can also tell you that the historical record is incorrect with respect to the enemy unit that engaged Audie that day, but I know the unit that was actually there. There were no Mark VI's at Holtzwihr that day, again simply a matter of misidentification in the aftermath of battle.


Thanks,

Dave

_________________
"I believe in all the men who stood up against the enemy, taking their beatings without whimper and their triumphs without boasting. The men who went and would go again to hell and back to preserve what our country thinks right and decent."


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Audie'sDad wrote:
Christie wrote:
I've seen the tanks Murphy fought in this action described both as "heavy tanks" and as jagdpanzers/panzerjagers, which I understand to be a type of light tank destroyer, not so different from the M10 Wolverine. So, I'm kind of confused.

I also saw somewhere, and like an idiot forgot to make note of, a reference that actually named the German companies/units involved. Does that ring any bells for people?

Edit: Sgt Brawley's eye witness account of the Holtzwihr action describes the tank as Mark VIs-would that be the dreaded, but high-maintenance Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger I?




Christie:

I'll give you this much. They were definantly jagdpanthers. I have several pics of the actual JP's that were in the engagement against Audie, complete with damage showing from the skirmish and dated on the verso at the time by these enemy with notations showing they were taken the day of and day following Holtzwihr.
As I said previously, I also have names of some of the enemy engaged at Holtzwihr, units, hull numbers, dates thatr these vehicles were assigned to the unit, disposition, unit commanders, some KIA etc.
I can also tell you that the historical record is incorrect with respect to the enemy unit that engaged Audie that day, but I know the unit that was actually there. There were no Mark VI's at Holtzwihr that day, again simply a matter of misidentification in the aftermath of battle.


Thanks,

Dave


Thank you, Dave! It would make more sense for the artillery (with a little help from US bombers and a certain party with a field radio and a .50 cal) to make a dent in the jadgpanthers than in something like the Tiger/Mark VI.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:44 pm 
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Christie wrote:
Audie'sDad wrote:
Christie wrote:
I've seen the tanks Murphy fought in this action described both as "heavy tanks" and as jagdpanzers/panzerjagers, which I understand to be a type of light tank destroyer, not so different from the M10 Wolverine. So, I'm kind of confused.

I also saw somewhere, and like an idiot forgot to make note of, a reference that actually named the German companies/units involved. Does that ring any bells for people?

Edit: Sgt Brawley's eye witness account of the Holtzwihr action describes the tank as Mark VIs-would that be the dreaded, but high-maintenance Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger I?




Christie:

I'll give you this much. They were definantly jagdpanthers. I have several pics of the actual JP's that were in the engagement against Audie, complete with damage showing from the skirmish and dated on the verso at the time by these enemy with notations showing they were taken the day of and day following Holtzwihr.
As I said previously, I also have names of some of the enemy engaged at Holtzwihr, units, hull numbers, dates thatr these vehicles were assigned to the unit, disposition, unit commanders, some KIA etc.
I can also tell you that the historical record is incorrect with respect to the enemy unit that engaged Audie that day, but I know the unit that was actually there. There were no Mark VI's at Holtzwihr that day, again simply a matter of misidentification in the aftermath of battle.


Thanks,

Dave


Thank you, Dave! It would make more sense for the artillery (with a little help from US bombers and a certain party with a field radio and a .50 cal) to make a dent in the jadgpanthers than in something like the Tiger/Mark VI.



Christie:

Yes it would! Even Colonel Ware in Audie's MoH recommendation got it wrong as he mentioned heavy tanks. He does say he was not an eyewitness to the event but rather relying on others accounts, but in any case he was wrong.

Thanks,

Dave

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