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 Post subject: Stan Musial
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Dave, my memory is short, but did you send one to the great St. Louis Cardinal and Baseball Hall of Famer, Stan Musial? I can't recall if you mentioned it or not. He was a receipent of the Presidential Metal of Freedom Award in 2010. He served in the Navy during WWII.

Did you ever hear from the Statler Brothers?

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 Post subject: Re: Stan Musial
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:47 pm 
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Bob wrote:
Dave, my memory is short, but did you send one to the great St. Louis Cardinal and Baseball Hall of Famer, Stan Musial? I can't recall if you mentioned it or not. He was a receipent of the Presidential Metal of Freedom Award in 2010. He served in the Navy during WWII.

Did you ever hear from the Statler Brothers?



Bob, No problem with the memory, we ae all getting there! In any case, I have written Musial two times, the first one being around June past and the second being on 15 December.

Haven't heard a peep, and at this point I ain't holding my breathe. Incidentally, both letters were sent to his home and not to an agent or business address.!

Now I realize he is 92 and in bad health as was evident in the video of the PMoF presentation ceremony, that said, however; I have found on the internet where several people have recently received returned signed baseballs with a 2-3 week turnaround after having sent in with the ball his customary $100 signing fee.
Too bad; and I thought he was a gentleman!

As to the Statler Brothers, I did not send a petition toall members, only to Mr. Don Reid and that did not go out until two weeks ago on 25 January. Let's see if he responds.

Thanks,

Dave

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"I believe in all the men who stood up against the enemy, taking their beatings without whimper and their triumphs without boasting. The men who went and would go again to hell and back to preserve what our country thinks right and decent."


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 Post subject: Re: Stan Musial
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:28 pm 
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Audie'sDad wrote:
Bob wrote:
Dave, my memory is short, but did you send one to the great St. Louis Cardinal and Baseball Hall of Famer, Stan Musial? I can't recall if you mentioned it or not. He was a recipient of the Presidential Metal of Freedom Award in 2010. He served in the Navy during WWII.

Did you ever hear from the Statler Brothers?



Bob, No problem with the memory, we ae all getting there! In any case, I have written Musial two times, the first one being around June past and the second being on 15 December.

Haven't heard a peep, and at this point I ain't holding my breathe. Incidentally, both letters were sent to his home and not to an agent or business address.!

Now I realize he is 92 and in bad health as was evident in the video of the PMoF presentation ceremony, that said, however; I have found on the internet where several people have recently received returned signed baseballs with a 2-3 week turnaround after having sent in with the ball his customary $100 signing fee.
Too bad; and I thought he was a gentleman!

As to the Statler Brothers, I did not send a petition to all members, only to Mr. Don Reid and that did not go out until two weeks ago on 25 January. Let's see if he responds.

Thanks,

Dave




I'm really disappointed to read this about Musial. He was my hero growing up and I also thought him to be a patriot. How could anyone who has served in the armed forces not be willing to support Audie for this award. Especially someone who was the recipient of the same award himself, and who didn't do anywhere near what Audie did in the service.

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 Post subject: Re: Stan Musial
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:07 pm 
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Bob wrote:
Audie'sDad wrote:
Bob wrote:
Dave, my memory is short, but did you send one to the great St. Louis Cardinal and Baseball Hall of Famer, Stan Musial? I can't recall if you mentioned it or not. He was a recipient of the Presidential Metal of Freedom Award in 2010. He served in the Navy during WWII.

Did you ever hear from the Statler Brothers?



Bob, No problem with the memory, we ae all getting there! In any case, I have written Musial two times, the first one being around June past and the second being on 15 December.

Haven't heard a peep, and at this point I ain't holding my breathe. Incidentally, both letters were sent to his home and not to an agent or business address.!

Now I realize he is 92 and in bad health as was evident in the video of the PMoF presentation ceremony, that said, however; I have found on the internet where several people have recently received returned signed baseballs with a 2-3 week turnaround after having sent in with the ball his customary $100 signing fee.
Too bad; and I thought he was a gentleman!

As to the Statler Brothers, I did not send a petition to all members, only to Mr. Don Reid and that did not go out until two weeks ago on 25 January. Let's see if he responds.

Thanks,

Dave




I'm really disappointed to read this about Musial. He was my hero growing up and I also thought him to be a patriot. How could anyone who has served in the armed forces not be willing to support Audie for this award. Especially someone who was the recipient of the same award himself, and who didn't do anywhere near what Audie did in the service.




Bob/Everyone:

Thanks for the note(s). I hope I do not offend anyone on the Board with my observations/conclusions but I thought I would respond to Bob (I agree with you Bob) with my personal views on this whole PMoF business. I’m not angry…perhaps just a bit frustrated and disappointed to some degree, and I constantly review and rethink the who…what…why’s etc. Anyway, this Operation is drawing to an end soon, and I really appreciate all each of you has done to help and assist. So…..here are my sometimes rambling thoughts.
First, Bob, I am very disappointed as well, not just with Musial but with most of the so-called elites. It is a sad commentary on the State of the Nation when one cannot get those in authority or elevated positions to affix their name to something to honor a great American.
I have always been a history nut, and as a kid in the 60's through the late 80's had long correspondence with some of the great military leaders of the 20th century. I corresponded with Doolittle, Ridgeway, Mark Clark, and even some of the former Axis general officers of WWII. I traded letters with Moshe Dayan for a short period and with some of the last great British and French officers of WWII.
Not just of a military nature but built friendships with many of these old gentleman and when a letter was sent, invariably in just a week or so, I would have an answer, not just on military subjects but a wide variety of issues of the time.
I guess our generals of that era were raised differently and with perhaps more.....dignity than today. I rarely wrote anyone with whom I did not receive an answer even when these gentlemen were in their 80's and 90's.
Look through that long laundry list of names to whom I mailed the petition and then the sorely list of those who responded. Unbelievable!
I can't understand it for the life of me. I truly believe that it lies in two factors; that being;

1) Most are either jealous of Audie and his accomplishments

2) They are apathetic

3) They don't have the PMoF, and therefore, he is undeserving in their minds

or

4) More likely, they are waiting like lions about to devour a gazelle for the opportunity to further their own personal careers with the next cabinet appointment or the next CEO appointment etc, etc.

It is a damn shame! If someone feels that the cases is meritless then have the personal moral courage to lay out your reasoning and send it to me. I'll respect your case, although I would disagree with the conclusion. I can't even get that in most cases.
Case in point; an unnamed Marine Corps general sent a 'declination' letter. I will not place his letter on the Site, as Richard is the only one who has read the letter but, it is obvious to the reader that the general took much time to draft the letter, made a strong case against the presentation, and did so both respectfully and very, very eloquently; while at the same time lauding Audie for his service to Nation both as a soldier and a citizen, and although I disagree with his conclusions that letter will always be cherished. As a matter-of-fact, it will take special pride-of-place in my Audie collection, should the PMoF ever come through.

Again, it goes to upbringing I suppose.

Lastly, I'll make a point on politicians. It is horrible that we as a Nation have become so divisive, so polarized, and hateful of our elected leaders. There was a time in our Country when politicians of the other side disagreed but could still come to an agreement for the good of the Nation.
This seems not to be the case anymore.
My 4th great-grandfather served in the Revolution, his son served in the War of 1812, his grandson; my 2nd great- grandfather fell at Vicksburg and the roll goes on.
I personally am sick of politicians for the most part. There have been a few of the 'old school' politicians such as Dole, Carlucci, Laird, Marsh who have signed and/or written 'letters of endorsement' for Audie. If you look back on their bio's they served Presidents of both parties; why; because I think they realize service to Country and not Party loyalty is what has kept this Nation strong over many years.
I have written to former Senator George Mitchell (D) who I actually liked as well as former Senator Alan Simpson (R), (both are recipients of the PMoF) who I always enjoyed watching his antics requesting a 'letter of endorsement' and including a copy of the Dole letter.
Think I ever heard from either one........keep dreaming!
Today, they are, for the most part divisive, self-absorbed, self-serving, egotistical jackasses who could care less about Nation, only themselves and self-aggrandizement.
I have been a Republican my entire life, but I have come to realize that the strength of a candidate lies not in party but in his/her personal beliefs. I no longer consider myself a Republican; I guess some call me an Independent.
In any case, I have never vented on Richard's Board and I have tried never to broach politics as it can be a sore subject with some.
My point of this long rambling note is simply, I truly believe much of the lack of support is due in large part to that divisive culture I mentioned. I think that in all honesty; if there were a Republican President in office, the returns especially amongst the military leaders would be nominally higher, as quite frankly I am not sure how this President fares amongst the general officers of our Nation, although he seems to be fairly popular amongst the younger generation of our military.
So, here is my take on President Obama and the PMoF. I have had many, many common citizens refuse to sign because it is "That President".
Well, Bob, Audie has been gone 40 years. Nixon was in office when Audie died and he didn't award it to him. Nixon was a Republican.
Then we had Ford (R), Carter (D), Reagan (R), Bush (R), Clinton (D), and George W (R).
Not one, not a darn one did it, and any of them could have, by stroke of a pen, Republican and Democrat alike.
On another note, I sent the petition with accompanying information to President George H.W. Bush via certified mail, not once but twice, and never even received a response. I sent it to George W. and got turned down, not so politely either I might add.
Thank God, I hadn't purchased his memoirs!
So why not President Obama? If he does it, at least he will have done the right thing, made right a wrong that should have been done ages ago....and if he does it I may just vote for him....as a way of saying thanks.

Just may take on this whole business. Oh, I wasn't venting at you Bob, I was agreeing with you about Musial and the whole batch of the others as well.

Thanks,

Dave

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"I believe in all the men who stood up against the enemy, taking their beatings without whimper and their triumphs without boasting. The men who went and would go again to hell and back to preserve what our country thinks right and decent."


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 Post subject: Re: Stan Musial
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:44 am 
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My own two cents, and I don't have all the info you do, Dave, so take this with a grain of salt, is that a lot of people just generally regard requests to sign petitions with some suspicion; they're afraid that it will blow up in their face some way, even if all they know about the subject of the petition is positive. That factor cannot be discounted, along with the number of people whose net impression of Murphy is probably negative-people in show business who've only heard unappealing things about him from the old-school types that they know, military types who either dislike the "hype" there used to be around him, or dismiss "To Hell And Back" as another inauthentic Hollywood film that doesn't show the real horrors of war. In his book, Col. Simpson quotes some unnamed officer as saying: "(Murphy) was not universally admired in the Division." Audie Murphy had many unusual abilities, and one of them was a talent for making enemies as well as friends wherever he went.

With regard to Stan Musial in particular, that sounds like a straightforward case of a frail person of advanced years whose caretakers don't put anything "complicated" to sign in front of him, just uncontroversial things that generate revenue. Mostly you get cases where the caretaker doesn't want to burden their charge too much, like asking for a judgment call on a petition that came in.

But sometimes the caretaker approves of the petition and either passes it on or signs for themselves-I think this is what happened with your petition to Dolores Hope, which her daughter signed her own name to. The mother was very frail-I thnk she passed away some months after you got the petition back-but the person handling matters for her was a family member who apparently knew about Audie Murphy and didn't have an objection to endorsing the petition.


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 Post subject: Re: Stan Musial
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:31 pm 
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Hey Dave:

Just catching up on all the threads. You mentioned all the Presidents that could have given Audie the PMoF, but didn't. You sent it to both Bushes, but did you ever send it to Bill Clinton? You know President Clinton used to mention Audie in nearly everyone of his Veterans Day speeches and maybe once or twice on Memorial Day. I wonder if he might sign it. Maybe ex-Presidents just don't endorse anything.......just my view!

Did you ever get Bill O'Riley's endorsement?

***Teri


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 Post subject: Re: Stan Musial
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:05 am 
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That really surprises me about George W Bush because Feller Goff bought a brick for in front of the statue for him. I took pictures of it and personally gave them to his dad's office in Houston. And, Rep. Ralph Hall gave him a miniature statue as well. It is their loss to share in these petitions. I hope Obama will put aside his dislike of Texas to do the right thing by Audie.

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 Post subject: Re: Stan Musial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Christie wrote:
My own two cents, and I don't have all the info you do, Dave, so take this with a grain of salt, is that a lot of people just generally regard requests to sign petitions with some suspicion; they're afraid that it will blow up in their face some way, even if all they know about the subject of the petition is positive. That factor cannot be discounted, along with the number of people whose net impression of Murphy is probably negative-people in show business who've only heard unappealing things about him from the old-school types that they know, military types who either dislike the "hype" there used to be around him, or dismiss "To Hell And Back" as another inauthentic Hollywood film that doesn't show the real horrors of war. In his book, Col. Simpson quotes some unnamed officer as saying: "(Murphy) was not universally admired in the Division." Audie Murphy had many unusual abilities, and one of them was a talent for making enemies as well as friends wherever he went.

With regard to Stan Musial in particular, that sounds like a straightforward case of a frail person of advanced years whose caretakers don't put anything "complicated" to sign in front of him, just uncontroversial things that generate revenue. Mostly you get cases where the caretaker doesn't want to burden their charge too much, like asking for a judgment call on a petition that came in.

But sometimes the caretaker approves of the petition and either passes it on or signs for themselves-I think this is what happened with your petition to Dolores Hope, which her daughter signed her own name to. The mother was very frail-I thnk she passed away some months after you got the petition back-but the person handling matters for her was a family member who apparently knew about Audie Murphy and didn't have an objection to endorsing the petition.



Christie,

Thanks for the response. I agree with your opening commentary totally and I had not discounted that fact, and factually, I had long ago determined that being worried about how ones name might be exploited, is a cause for many to be somewhat cautious. That said, I always mail out a list, now comprising some 25 typed pages of the 'Distinguished/Notable' signatories, and one would think that that would resolve questions in someone's mind as to the sincerity and seriousness of the petitition. I do also agree about your caretaker thoughts and had considered that aspect as well.
Point is I guess it is each persons right to endorse or not endorse, but I just feel that although unsolicited in nature, perhaps a nice 'declination' letter would be appropriate. That said, I also understand that the person is under no obligation to answer at all, but it would be a polite gesture.

Thanks,

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Stan Musial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:05 pm 
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Teri Edge wrote:
Hey Dave:

Just catching up on all the threads. You mentioned all the Presidents that could have given Audie the PMoF, but didn't. You sent it to both Bushes, but did you ever send it to Bill Clinton? You know President Clinton used to mention Audie in nearly everyone of his Veterans Day speeches and maybe once or twice on Memorial Day. I wonder if he might sign it. Maybe ex-Presidents just don't endorse anything.......just my view!

Did you ever get Bill O'Riley's endorsement?

***Teri



Teri,

Never heard a peep from O'Reilly. Not surprising even though I did send it to his hame and not his office.
As to Clinton perhaps that might be an idea. I have the feeling that former President's only endorse political candidates, but I think I will mail one tomorrow to ole Bill, and let it play out. See what happens.
Again, very, very, disappointed in the Bush family and their lack of response and/or participation.

Thanks,

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Stan Musial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:07 pm 
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Betty wrote:
That really surprises me about George W Bush because Feller Goff bought a brick for him in front of the statue for him. I took pictures of it and personally gave them to his dad's office in Houston. And, Rep. Ralph Hall gave him a miniature statue as well. It is their loss to not share in these petitions. I hope Obama will put aside his dislike of Texas to do the right thing by Audie.



Betty:

Thanks as well.
Yes, it is indeed a disappointment. Politicians as I say, like to talk, but apparently when it comes to acting only do so when it is in their best interests.
Truly disappointing!

Thanks,

Dave

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"I believe in all the men who stood up against the enemy, taking their beatings without whimper and their triumphs without boasting. The men who went and would go again to hell and back to preserve what our country thinks right and decent."


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 Post subject: Re: Stan Musial
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:43 pm 
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Hello Dave, and all the folks who have commented on your thread,

I have to say Dave, I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head, and I for one totally agree with
your thoughts regarding who or why they have not responded. As you say, in the past, the truly great
politicians and presidents, would in the end, vote for what would help the nation, not just along
party lines or affiliates, or further their careers.. It is a sad commentary indeed when apathy rules the
day and that seems to be the rule of thumb for the times we are now living in..I just can't help but wonder
what would Murphy have done regarding the ills that besets our country today.. I like to think he would
have picked up the sword and tried to lead us to victory a lot like he did as company commander of
his squad. Dave, I just want to say A GREAT BIG THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR EFFORTS.. Just my thoughts,
Shirley Jean.


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 Post subject: Re: Stan Musial
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:01 am 
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Shirleyjean wrote:
Hello Dave, and all the folks who have commented on your thread,

I have to say Dave, I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head, and I for one totally agree with
your thoughts regarding who or why they have not responded. As you say, in the past, the truly great
politicians and presidents, would in the end, vote for what would help the nation, not just along
party lines or affiliates, or further their careers.. It is a sad commentary indeed when apathy rules the
day and that seems to be the rule of thumb for the times we are now living in..I just can't help but wonder
what would Murphy have done regarding the ills that besets our country today.. I like to think he would
have picked up the sword and tried to lead us to victory a lot like he did as company commander of
his squad. Dave, I just want to say A GREAT BIG THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR EFFORTS.. Just my thoughts,
Shirley Jean.



Thanks Shirley Jean:

It is indeed sad, for the Nation, that things in politics have come this far. Not sure what Murph would think, but I am sure that he would find it a bit bewildering that he and those other gallant men fought against ruthless dicttators and despots only to see if come to this.

Truly sad,

Thanks again,

Dave

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